The Life You Want Will Cost You Everything - Bugzy Malone (4K)

Brand new modern wisdom merch goes live this Friday. Look at this beautiful doing the thing angel. We've got our first ever death metal design, sleeveless t-shirt and a hoodie. This awesome high country ranch thing that we've got this snake design which I love. Wisdom nation world tour wisdom coffee and much more. Sign up at mwmerch.com now to be the first person to get access. >> What's the difference between making it and maintaining it? I think the difference is we're advertised to right a lot as as

kids. So coming up to me I I seen a lot of nice clothes Lamborghinis lifestyles that appeared to sort of be people that have made it in life. [gasps and sighs] So, we're sort of programmed into trying to get there. I think once you get there, um, there's a whole maintenance situation that nobody's talking about >> and you're not prepared for. And I think that's why so many people sort of shoot up and plateau and fall off. >> Mhm. >> Because it's not advertised that it's

tough all the way through. You got to be the best version of yourself all the way through. It's not just make it, kick your feet up, you know, and relax. I think the total addressable market for people who want advice on how to make it versus the people who want advice on how to maintain it is basically a 10,000 to one, 100,000 to one, right? almost everybody is not yet where they want to be >> uh financially in terms of status in terms of recognition or

admiration or respect by people that they respect and because of that it means that if you're looking at the world of advice >> most people are still on the climb as opposed to trying to maintain the altitude that they've got to and that means yeah that almost all of the pieces of goodwill and sage archetype mythology is about you getting to the topm not about what happens when you get there. I'm kind of fascinated about the difference between someone who never makes it and someone who's

fallen off and the pain and the uh the way that that's interpreted, huh, that person never actually made it to the top as opposed to the boxer or the rapper or the movie star that did had it all in their hands and then let it go. No wonder which one's more painful. It's such an interesting concept, man, because you when we last spoke, he was like, "Where's your head at? How have you been?" And that's something that I'm sort of addressing at the minute. And um

where is the top? Right? And I think what a lot of people do is maybe in the Bible it says a lover of silver will never be content with the silver. Something along them lines. And what I've recently figured out is that like I'm content. I've really got everything I ever wanted and more. And I think if you're not careful, what sort of happens is you're tricked into thinking that you need more. >> And I think they're the people that get into trouble. You know, they're

trying to impress other people. They want validation. They want people to to pat them on the back. And I think when you get into a place where you don't need nobody to pat you on the back, >> don't need nobody's validation, you actually strip it back to who am I? What are my experiences of this planet? And and sort of recently I've understood that like I come from really humble beginnings, man. You know, I've had to sort of It's been an interesting process making this album

because I sort of told myself if if I can't be more vulnerable, I'm more honest than I've been before, I make something that's of a higher quality than what I've made before, I'm not going to do it. And I was serious about that. So, um, I had to go through a process of like stripping it back and and when I spent some sort of time in my mind at the beginning of my life, it dawned on me that like I've got everything I ever wanted and

some, you know, which sort of starts a different direction, >> you know, and what I what I see is people that have got like a number in their and material things that they told themselves they'll get. And now because they've identified with being somebody that doesn't quit, they have to get there. >> You understand? And um I don't think any of that's real. I think it's a an insecurity that you must overcome. >> I had a Navy Seal on the podcast, guy called Andy Stump, and

he's now uh big podcaster. I think he's done 10,000 skydives in his career. Unbelievably accomplished. I think he holds some world records for maybe base jumping or or um wings suit gliding or something like that. So like a a very extreme human um but does it all with a lot of humor. He's got like a he's one of those people who very lethal, very trained, but does it with a smile on their face which makes them feel to me more disturbing. The fact that you do

it with that sense of uh sort of gallows humor to me is like holy like you're really scary. Anyway, he was telling me this story. He'd created his entire life identity around being a person that doesn't quit, right? This is who I am. I'm a Navy Seal. I do not quit. I do not give up. I do not leave my guys behind. I push through selection, training, firefights, anything. Everything. I don't quit. That's what I've built my identity around. >> But the don't quit muscle had

also caused him to stay in a very toxic marriage for 15 years. Well, I'm the guy that doesn't quit. He's like, "Well, sometimes that skill of not quitting, of not giving up, of continuing to push through, of denying your emotions, how you feel, pushing that to one side can actually be something that is not a performance enhancer, but it's a constraint." M >> and I came up with this line when he was talking to me which is what you are praised for in public you often

pay for in private. >> What are the prices of the things that you have built? You've constructed this very unique version of yourself. Navy Seal rapper person who's overcoming challenges of childhood. Okay. But what's the cost of doing that as well? >> Yeah. >> And nobody wants to talk about that. the cost. Yeah. So, so again recently I've I've understood that like it sort of cost me anyway everything because what you don't understand when you're looking up at essentially a new world, you know, if you're

coming from real poverty, real dysfunction, and where you propose to get to is a functional place and a an affluent place. [snorts] Something's got to give. And there's parts of yourself that have have to die. >> And there's a whole life that you identified with that's got to die. And death death is always violent, right? It's never general. So when you talk about sort of paying the cost, I relate. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think now that I've quote unquote made it, um, the

dust starts to settle with where you're actually up to. And I recently had a family member pass away. And it's it's a heavy one because [snorts] he would drink a lot and there was some drugs involved. And when I when I was young, I would I would look up to him. He would he would be the guy that like I was trying to be like him. Um, and then life got on top of him. We had a fallout and you sort of see where it's going

and you sort of grieving that relationship >> in advance. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's so interesting. >> Yeah. Because you know >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. alcoholism, any of these vices, they're they're a train crash waiting to happen. >> They're a slow burn though, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think uh relationships are somewhat similar. The sort of >> you have this sense that it's over between you and a partner that it's not going to work. >> The sort of the writing is on the wall,

but you're still >> on the train car, so to speak, >> and you can slowly see this thing coming toward you, and it's this odd kind of perspective grief. >> You know, you're thinking about the future grief that you're going to feel in the moment. It's like you're taking regret from the future and bringing it down into the present, anticipating that it's about to arrive. >> And um I've had people in my life that have taken their own lives. One of my longest friends did only

a couple of months ago >> in Dubai. Yeah. Uh, I mean, he was always an extreme individual, but uh, he decided that the way that he was going to end it was to throw himself off the 60th floor of a building. That that wasn't a surprise to people, it wasn't a surprise. As much as everyone loved him and >> he had like the one of the biggest funerals that you can think of, I don't think that that many people were surprised. saddened, distraught, like destroyed by

this wonderful guy not being here anymore, but you kind of saw it coming as well. You're like, a what does that mean? And then there's the guilt of like, well, if you could see it coming, how couldn't you step in to fix something? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's only so much you can do. And I think that's the top and bottom of it is is in the end you got to be responsible for yourself. You know this position that I found myself in comes

with a lot of um people asking for advice, people relating, people being inspired by almost feels like my my purpose to to acquire this spot. However, I've got to be the best version of myself. there's only so much externally I can do. So to me it feels like the the journey is always and internally you know and it's sad and it hurts. However, that's these are the realities of life, you know, and it's not until you sort of take that on board that you sort of

take your own life more seriously, you know, and that's the conclusion I came to. Can Can you stop an alcoholic from drinking? >> I'm just a man. Can you can you stop somebody that's suicidal from jumping? I'm not God, you know. All I can do is be the best version of myself and hope that that rubs off in a positive way. Can we talk about your childhood? Feel like for the people that don't know what growing up for you was like? What was that like? What

were the formative experiences that sort of made you into who you became? >> Yeah, just complex really. I think the the more I sort of look back and understand it from an adult perspective, there was just a lot of complexities going on in there that like um [snorts] create confusion. And as people were confused anyway, right? You go from being a a boy to a teenager, that's confusing. Then from a teenager to a man, that's confusing. you start adding in some dysfunctional characters, some crime, some

deaths, some murders, and what I've recently sort of understood is you sort of lose you lose confidence in in your place in society cuz you don't feel like you fit in, you know? you sort of know things and you sort of seen things that go against the norms that go against what people think is reality. You know what? Like I mean if we if we go sort of go to my early days of being interested in being a a villain for a living cuz that was

sort of the example that I' I'd seen. >> You know, the coolest individual I'd ever seen was a very well- paid criminal. and um you come from tough beginnings and and you're looking for a job description, right? So, in sort of trying to get my education in that world, in that area, you stumble across some colorful characters, man. and you meet a man that's murdered people and not been convicted and he's at large and he's just in the community prior to him meeting his um his

own sort of violent demise. You you you start to see that like what people think it is is not. there there is a world outside of the parameters of what people are calling normal and it's really there and it really exists. I always sort of used to as a kid I'd watch Harry Potter, right? And um and that's got an interesting sort of similarity in that like you've got what they call the muggles, the humans, the the normal people and then there's the wizarding world but

they're separate. You got to go on platform 9 and what is it? 3/4 and run through the wall at the right angle to sort of be immersed into the wizarding world. And that's what the underbelly is like. It's just a whole different ball game >> with a different set of rules. >> When did you first get exposed to that? >> That's what I'm saying. That's why it's complex because I think uh my um mom sort of seen it coming and was trying to shield me from

it which sort of meant I was under prepared if you like you know and then it's just happening. It's just turning up. That's like Harry Potter when the letters are coming through the door and he's like what are them letters? and they're hiding them from him because they know like there's a there's a world that you're sort of inheriting that we're trying to shield you from. It's just turning up. And it was like that for me, you know. And um so you go from sort of

very normal to, you know, a man has been murdered in your uncle's house where you'll go and stay at the weekends, but you're a kid, so no one's having that conversation with you. You're just sort of getting exposed to it >> naturally. That's confusing cuz then you'll go to your friend's house to play football in his living room with a little soft football and you start seeing that like your world's completely different to mine. The way you talk about your family is completely different to the

way I'm hearing my family spoke about. And in fact, when your mom gets home, she gives you that look as if to say, "Why? Why have you got him here?" She start fitting in nowhere. Right. And and there's two ways of looking at that. You can look at that with the cup half empty or half full. And the more I delve into my faith, the more I sort of understand that like special people on the planet get challenged early. It's all a challenge to sort of

anchor you in in faith and strength, determination. [sighs and gasps] So, there's been many a time that I've sort of felt like a victim like >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Why was I exposed to these things and then eventually sort of come to terms with the fact that it was given to me because I can handle it? You know, it's an interesting quirk of childhood that when you get exposed to things, nobody explains why they're happening. >> And you're right, it's just like osmosis. You're around this

particular type of function or dysfunction, this type of love or this type of uh abandonment, this type of belonging or this type of isolation. And all of these things just sort of happen. And because you don't have perspective because you're a kid, you just think, well, this is what life is. >> Yeah. >> This is how a family works or this is how a mom and a dad talk to each other. >> It's an interesting point, brother. You really got to go and get your education

on that as an individual in the world. You know, I see so many people that have sort of taken for granted where they where they started, right? And let's say their father is an alcoholic and he beats them up and that's their understanding of love [sighs] and they might be internally fighting that cuz they sort of know it's wrong >> but then you get imposter syndrome because they feel like I'm sort of raised by a man that hits a woman >> and treats kids bad and

you really just got to get into the world and that's why in music my sort of motto was be inspired. is be inspired. You got to sort of look at greatness and high performing individuals, responsible individuals, accountable individuals, and just take bits, learn bits, and understand what it is to be a a man, I would say. But it's not just men, is it? It's being a good human being. Um, and then you got to sort of detach. You got to detach from the the negative um,

examples that you've been shown. >> Mhm. >> That they don't define you. >> So fascinating when people start to do healing work or reflection or therapy or delve into their own origins. There's so many little pitfalls. It's kind of amazing that anybody ever makes it out of their own childhood challenges by reflecting on them without being completely destroyed because there's so many ways that you can go, "That thing happened to me, therefore I'm a victim. That thing happened to me, therefore I should be bitter. That

thing happened to me, therefore I should repeat it in my life. That thing happened to me, therefore I shouldn't be able to work as hard or I shouldn't be able to get as far." Like there's so many ways that deciding to finally face what happened when you were younger, whether it's big or small, whether it's traumatic with a capital T or with a small T, so many different ways that that could be interpreted in later life as a justification for you railing against the world or

not being a good person or being a good person but wrapping your entire identity up about something that happened to you when you were 11 or 12 or 15. It's kind of amazing that anybody makes it through adult life healed without being taken away by what happened to them when they were a kid. >> Yeah. I think it's I think it's the pattern of the universe, man. If if we was to use an analogy of a boxing coach, I think what God sort of doing is

putting you in the exact situation that is going to create resilience in you for for the the challenges you're going to have to go through in sort of parenthood or your career or seeking your purpose. Basically, I think that's all it comes down to. M I think each individual has a purpose of some description and if we do use the analogy of a coach when a boxing trainer puts you in a spa and this has happened to me puts you in a spa with a guy

that can whoop your ass. Um you don't understand that until you get the benefits later down the line. He [snorts] sort of put you in that situation because he knew it was just enough for you to handle. >> Yeah. >> You know, and the adversity that you have to face on that day is going to be exactly what you need to sort of gain the skills to sort of take you to the next level. I had a situation with a guy. He happened to commit suicide.

Rest in peace. [panting and gasps] And but he was a good boxer, man. He was a good boxer from where I'm from. a little villain he was and a little bit older than me and I' I'd sort of been in and around the boxing gym for a couple of years, my coach Lime cuz I'm a student type character and he threw me in with this guy and I remember thinking he's a bit good for me in it and he was beating me up pillar to post

and um and here's an interesting one about belief because when I was getting beaten up. I just couldn't believe I could lace this guy's boots. >> And I remember after a couple of rounds, my coach said, "Remember the uppercut we've been working on? Jab and step back and then uppercut." And I was I'm just doing as I'm told, right? Then I get back in. We we get into it. I do the jab. I take that step back. I throw the uppercut. And the guy bites his

tongue in half. Blood everywhere. Spark called off. Right. And in that moment, what I sort of took from boxing is that same belief that my coach had in me about my ability and what I was actually capable of. >> I had to learn to have in myself in order to actually attain success, you know. And that was probably the heaviest lesson that I I learned in boxing because it was because of that coach um an elderly man called Brian Hughes. I'll say his name as much

as I can just because um he had such a profound impact in my life. Um but the way he was able to see things in me, I couldn't see them in myself. >> Mhm. >> And it took me many years to understand that like oh like belief, faith is a journey that you've got to walk by yourself. A quick aside, running out of a product is a pretty good test of how much you actually like it. Do you order more or just get on with your

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or by heading to drinklnt.com/modern wisdom. That's drinklnt.com/ modern wisdom. Good duck. Well played. There's a an idea called Solomon's paradox. Solomon's paradox is that we are much better at giving advice to other people than we are at giving it to ourselves. and uh you have a friend that's going through a difficult relationship and you tell them precisely the sort of loving, caring, encouraging reassuring motivational thing that they need to hear and it's pathy and beautiful and memorable and also the exact thing that you need to

hear yourself. we're much better at giving advice to other people. But I wonder if there's an equivalent here with regards to self-belief for a lot of people that sometimes we are much better at believing in other people than we are believing in ourselves. That we can often see in our friends and the people around us and maybe even just the people that we respect and admire a type of resilience and capacity and talent that they can't see in themselves. And maybe your goal in life should

be to try and find as many friends as possible who believe in you more than you believe in you. I'm going to disagree. Yeah, I think it's harder. Like it's a harder path. I think the actual challenge of life is removing all crutches >> that you're leaning on. >> Entire self-reliance. >> Yeah. get to that place and then you've got something to offer to friends as opposed to being relying on friends opinions of you >> because as human beings we've all got a persona, right? So

that means sometimes that people say they believe but deep down when they go home and take the mask off they're like you can't really do that. And that that will have an effect that's there in the in the vibration of that person. >> Do you think that part of that worldview comes from growing up in an environment where you couldn't rely on anybody? This level of extreme self-sufficiency. Interesting one because I think the closer you can get to the to the dark side of life, the

more realism you're exposed to. Does it look you you see it for what it really is. You see human nature for what it really is. A lot of people are acting, man. You know the Scarface scene where he says, "Say good night to the bad guy. Never going to see a bad guy like this again." And he start he starts to sort of address the people in the room and what he's saying is, "You've not got the guts to be who you want to be." >>

And the more I reflect on that sort of scene and the more I take acting serious and dialogue, what he's basically saying there is that like all of you are savages, man. and it's human nature. But you've learned to hide yourself. >> You've learned to fit into society [gasps] where there was a time on the planet when like all the laws and rules and regulations weren't in place. And that's when you've seen what what man is really like. If you look at a lot of the

wars where people are from one side of the world and they go to another side of the world, they attack everybody there. They steal everything from that land. You know, this is what human nature really sort of looks like. So, I guess to answer your question, what I'm saying is sometimes violence, dysfunction, sort of chaos is is are people being themselves? >> Are people living the most honest version of their existence? >> You know, not everybody is a good person. Not everybody's learned restraint. So that

doesn't mean that the darkness doesn't exist. You know, it's sort of a part of the the polarity of life, the the bigger picture of of what's going on. Isn't it interesting that as a civilized society, a big part of the game is people being noble, calm, uh, socially aware humans, >> sophisticated savages. >> Yeah, that's what >> and keeping themselves keeping their truth hidden. We would sooner somebody lie and be domesticated than be honest and dangerous. That's kind of how society's held together. Hey, you might

you behave yourself. You may have to this is there is a type of decorum and behavior that's mostly acceptable here. Uh but yeah, maybe that's part of the reason that um mafia boss stories and and true crime killers and and uh heroes are both on the good side and the bad side. What's so alluring about them is that it appears to be someone who is being themselves unashamedly being themselves for better and for worse. We're we're taught that as kids, right? If you're 3 years old

and a kid gets on your nerves and you slap him in his face, you get told off by an adult. Don't do that. That's outside of the norm. That's outside of what's accepted >> and you quite quickly put into line. I think what's interesting to go back to your question before about my sort of childhood or my job description now is that like I've experienced loss of freedom man. >> [sighs] >> I've been outside of the curriculum system at a point when everybody else was taking

exams. [snorts] >> I've been outside of work at the early phases of people getting the first job and doing the first couple of years. It creates a freedom in your mind that is can be drumed out of a person when you're told about all these rules and regulations. Now if if with discipline you learn sort of selfrestraint and you become a good person off your own back, you develop your own morals and principles. What you've got that other people don't have is a sort of a

freedom of thought. they've been within the curriculum system and within fitting into society in order to get a job and you know if rest we strain themselves >> I find that tough about the industry you know I I I really I'm really sort of from a place where the the liars are lying from their essenti is on the planet. Some of the most charismatic and sort of fluid thieves on the planet. M. >> So when you turn up to me from a a record label, you

know, and you went to school and you behaved yourself, you might have done some drugs when you was younger or whatever, but you've been a good person and you went to university and you've [snorts] climbed the ladder and you found yourself in in this job description that means you want to sort of exploit someone for their artistic creations and strike a deal with them. Your lies stand out to me as like robotic, uncarismatic. You know, you you you want to meet a scouser and see the

way that they can steal or sell something. >> Unsophisticated deception. >> Yeah. You know, you get to these sort of corporate liars and um and I I struggle with it cuz I can sort of see it coming a mile off. And for them, they've compartmentalized it because it's their it's their job. And what they're thinking is, "Yeah, but outside of my job, I'm actually a really nice person. Like when I go home with my family and friends, like I'm I'm honest. I'm cool." >> But what

you've [clears throat] done is you've accepted a job description that means that you're putting a smile on trying to take more off the table than you're putting on. And for me that doesn't sit well you know and and I think that's why being independent staying independent >> um and sort of climbing the ladder has been my path. >> What does ignore discreditation mean? Yes. It is like um in that particular instance I'm talking about the fact that when you get into the underbelly like there's certain

things you have to get under your belt to be deemed as credible. you know, you're a again, if we use the the Harry Potter analogy, you're you're a credible wizard. Um, when you then transition over to being completely legitimate and having morals and principles, then then people have sort of stayed in the darkness will will sort of try and discredit >> your the realism of of your story or who you say you are or what it is that you say that you've lived through. you're you're

no you're no longer a part of this. I just don't believe in it. You know, I I and I think by the way I think I think that's can happen to anybody. I'm sure that you getting to where you've got to in life has came with many a person trying to just discredit you for what you are, who you are, what you've become through all the challenges that you've endured, you know, and just try and take away from all of that as if what's happening here

is luck. So, it's not it I was using it in in its particular, but it's not particular. I think it's just the mindset of the sort of victimhood person >> towards a person that is no longer identifies with being a victim. I think they'll discredit you and and I think the psychology behind that is how how have they done it? Why has it happened for him? >> Mhm. >> Why is Chris's podcast blown up? >> Right. And because they can't justify that in their head, they'll

just discredit everything you've ever done. >> Well, it closes the gap. You know, anyone that makes progress throws into sharp contrast the lack of progress by the people around them. >> For sure. >> And that's uncomfortable. >> Yeah. >> There's a the a bunch of sort of male subcultures on the internet that don't like the word ascending. So, uh, if you're struggling to get a girl and somebody in this community manages to not even get a relationship or get a kiss or whatever, even if the

barista at Starbucks that her eyes linger a little bit longer on them than they think they should do, maybe she might be a little bit interested, that's seen as kind of being persona non grata inside of the community. And the reason is that if you ascend, if you become a a a person who's a fake cell as opposed to an incel, so incel, involuntary celibate, fake cell, you weren't one of us anyway. What it means is if this person is able to be very close to

me in terms of construction and worries and concerns and maybe uh disfigurement or height or charisma or setbacks or financial status or whatever it might be, but is able to get to a place that at one point in the past I wanted to but have since given up on. that now still leaves the doorway open for hope and for aspiration. >> And that means that if I'm not getting there, that might be on my shoulders. And I think that that microcosm is what happens broadly when

anyone that comes from an area where lots of people would love to get out of it to ascend in one form or another. Maybe it's a dysfunctional northern town in the UK. Maybe it's a uh sports team that lots of people had the opportunity to get started in, but if one person that you used to play football with goes on to become a pro. Oh, well, you know, his parents had more money than mine or he, you know, he he the coach liked him more than

they did me or he was a suckup. He was always being a whatever. The ability to try and discredit the legitimacy of someone's progress reduces the distance between the person who didn't make it and the person that did by saying that it was unfair or they cheated, they sold out, they aren't that talented, whatever, they got lucky. >> And uh as opposed to going what what should I learn? How can I try and deconstruct the path that was taken there? And yeah, for sure. Like lots

of people manage to make it through fortune and serendipity and uh unfairness or like nepotism or favors. All of that stuff happens but I think far less than people actually think. Yeah. I think my career's allowed me to sort of heal publicly and talk about some of the things that that I've been sort of learning on my journey. sort of share it with people >> and so I try and I try and take things down to the essence and I think the word there is accountability

ruthless accountability >> and I think when a person struggles to be accountable that's what it looks like you know and so I'm almost tricking the audience in that a guy listening to me might be 13 years old and he's not really that interested in healing. he actually doesn't know how broken he's going to be >> later on down the line when trauma sort of sets in and takes a hold. Um, but just the sort of phrase to be inspired, if you sort of take that on

and take it seriously, it will change your outlook on the guy that became a professional footballer. And you'll admit to yourself, do you know what? When he was trying, I wasn't. When he was doing the runs, when he was doing the extra stretching, when he was watching and studying the game, I I wasn't even interested. I was chilling. and that's why he's a professional footballer and I'm on the streets chilling with my mates. At least then you get the opportunity to pick somewhere else and go

again, you know, and and that's what accountability will do. It will tell you the truth, you know, and that's what I'm interested in. And that's why rap music as a job description is tough. >> Yeah. >> Because for you to tell the truth about your life experience pisses a lot of people off, man. >> Why? because you sort of can't help but tell parts of their story that they don't want light shining on, you know, and you can be as respectful as you as you want.

Try to be as respectful as you want. Or you can be as brash as you want, but you will end up telling other people's stories. I think Martin scores he talks about that in the films that he makes and a lot of his inspiration comes from early might be New York sort of mob culture and and he said a lot of people was upset with him because naturally his inspiration was the things he really seen. >> Mhm. >> Right. But what to us is Robert Dairo

having an argument in the street in his world is is some real person somewhere that's like Martin I know you I'll be telling my story to the world you know and I'm I'm sure it's the same for a guy Richie >> Mhm. a Tarantino. These artists and storytellers, you're the best. The best stories are true. You know, I'm real and honest. I've spent the last month sleeping on a tour bus and hotel beds, and I've taken one of these every single night. Nightly Sleep by Momentous

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checkout. You flinched. [laughter] He used the word vulnerability earlier on. >> Mhm. >> What's your relationship like with vulnerability? >> A heavy one because it's something that you're always vulnerability [clears throat] is like a guy that's stood there with his fists up ready to throw punches at you and you just you're nervous. You don't want to go anywhere near this guy. He looks big and strong. You can tell it's going to hurt. and and it's your job to get closer and closer and eventually go and

have the fight. Go and face it head on, you know. And it's just something that as bravery sort of sets in, courage in in my instance, a hopelessness. You you sort of hit rock bottom. You sort of realize that you're not as cool as you thought you were. and and you you ain't got nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. You're too tired to run from him. So, you just get into the fight and you just stand in the in the face of the truth. Um,

and in order to do that, you you have to be vulnerable. You have to be open to embarrassment. Um, and yeah, so that's that's been my my experience and and I think with making this album. I've um I've really had to go there, man. And I think in in going there, you see yourself in a in a way that um might not be as glamorous as you'd like for it to be. >> What did you learn? that I'm just a human being, man. I think I

thought I think I think to be successful early doors. Um, you think a lot of yourself cuz you're just trying to get your head around like how did that happen, you know? You know, and you think more of yourself than you actually are. And then there comes a point where you see yourself for what you actually are >> and you're like, "Oh, you know." So yeah, I guess I learned that um the work paid off, the consistency paid off, the standing back up after getting knocked

down paid off. But I'm nobody special. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm not above people because my results have came in sooner than theirs, you know? Was there a moment or formative experience that was the beginning of that honesty, truthfulness self-reflection vulnerability like inflection point? Is there something that sort of spurred that on or did it accumulate over time? >> Just the just the um the the the solitude of walking the path. While I was making the album, we was using the analogy of

the tunnel. And what was what I was basically saying in the studio is that like success the place that you see yourself getting to there's like a tunnel between you and that place and you're in your starting point this function whatever it is for you as an individual and then there's this tunnel you think yeah I'm brave enough to take that you'll run into this tunnel everybody else stays behind cuz they think it's I'm not going in there. [gasps and sighs] There's a point halfway through

the tunnel where you're being ridiculed, by the way, by the people that didn't go in. They weren't brave enough to go into the tunnel, but they're shouting and calling you names. They're trying to scare you out of it. [sighs and gasps] And there's a point where you sort of look back and you you can no longer see the light at the end of the tunnel that way, but now you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel that way. And then you step on

the on the bones and the remains of the people that failed before you in the tunnel. You start to realize you're in sort of dark territory and it and it might not happen. And at that point, what do you do? Do you freeze and and try and go backwards or do you keep a steady nerf and and keep marching forwards, which is all that you can do, you know, until eventually you can see light at the end of the tunnel and eventually you get to your

destination. And that tunnel is the reason that is the difference between individuals like yourself that get it over the line and individuals that stay at the beginning of the tunnel shouting in and ridiculing you hoping that you fall, hoping that you you're not brave enough to keep walking forward. Now, I use that analogy to sort of talk about the isolation >> and the solitude that happens in the tunnel because you you lose a world that you're familiar with. You lose a type of an individual that

you're familiar with, you understand, you relate to. And there's a long period between going from where you were to where it is that you're going to go that you'll be isolated and in and in solitude. And I think that for me was the sort of pivotal point where I was like "Oh I have to have this fight. I have to face all of my insecurities and all of my fears head on, you know, and I think that unlocks a version of you that people can no

longer pull down." >> Mhm. You know, there's a line from Bedro Cullen. He says, "Your haters are out there holding their breath, waiting for you to fail. Make sure they suffocate." >> Oh, there you go. They have no choice over them to suffocate because Yeah. And and when I when I talk about the brutal honesty >> at the bottom, at the bottom, I've met some of the most honest people I've I've ever met. And then you get into the corporate world and you meet a guy

in a suit and you think this is it. >> I'm around some affluent people now like >> high integrity. >> High integrity. And it's just not the way it is. [laughter] >> Just villains with slightly nicer suits. >> Yeah, man. They've learned to hide themselves man. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah. It's interesting. It's really interesting. I I know exactly what you mean. There's There's something more kind of noble about the Yeah. I'm the bad guy. I'm dressed in black. I've got a balaclava in

my pocket. As opposed to the dude that's got a protect philipe on and is smiling at you as he tries to get you to sign this particular contract. >> There you go. There you go. And and and that being said, it means I am educated. And the reason that I talk like that is because you sort of come from the bottom and you don't feel like you belong when you're in a room full of people that went to university. Wow. What's that like? Right? But it's

like actually my education's the real one cuz we're all in the same world. Right? And then you start understanding that actually I'm ahead. My intuition is much stronger than yours. My sense of reality is much stronger than yours, you know? And and that being said, that's that's what I'm trying to do through music. I'm sure I'll go over into acting and [sighs] sort of give an account of myself. But through music, I try and give an account of myself that makes people understand their own strength,

their own power, >> you know, that that just because somebody may have started in a in a position where it was better than the position you started in, it doesn't mean anything, man. You've been given the challenges that you need to take you to. That's quite profound, actually. Last time I was on your show, I was talking about like the law of attraction. >> Mhm. >> My opinion on that has has changed slightly. >> Okay. Tell me about the law of >> the more that my

faith strengthens, the more the more I have an understanding of God, the more I sort of feel as if we're sort of co-creators in that you will see the way that your life's going to go. I'm going to do a podcast. I'm going to do these shows. I'm going to live in this kind of a house. I think you're then given the challenges in order to make you that kind of a person. A person that can not only attain them things, but maintain them things. >>

Mhm. >> That's what the solitude's for. That's what the hardships for. That's what the stress is for. It's building a strength and a resilience. That means that not only will you get that house that you want to live in, you'll be able to maintain it. Light work, >> you know. So, yeah, that's Yeah. What's your insight around dark forces as you are able to make a more positive change in the world? Uh dark influence realizing that the impact is so positive that they need to put

increasingly difficult challenges in your way. We talked about this last time, but I find it really interesting. Are you thinking this is devil, bad energy, karmic retribution? How do you see this happening? >> Yeah, I think you've got to um in with within the within the album I play with biblical framework, right? Just because if you look at some of these cathedrals, men were building them sometimes for 300 years and as you know, a man will live for 80 years. He has to pass on the

assignment. So there's something in religion to be taken seriously. However, I sort of look at let's say if we look at a different culture and a different religion and you look at a guy and you look at the the grandparent of this guy's grandmother and she's a really nice person. She's helped bring the kids up just because she's of a different religion to another person. I'm not sure that means that she's not in contact with God. So I I I sort of take a step back

from being sort of particular in my thinking towards religion and the devil and I'm really down here living it. Which sort of goes back to what you were saying before about >> when you're living it, it's hard to apply everything [gasps] >> because it's all going on, you know. So, I think you can get as deep into a sort of biblical framework or sort of um spiritual thinking as you want, but we're here in the physical living it. And you've got to sort of um you've

got to sort of wrap your mind around it. And I think from this conversation, you can see that analogies and stuff has has been the way I've learned. >> Mhm. Do you think pain is the best teacher or is it the loudest teacher? Well, I mean, if you you disrespect a man on a cold night and he punches you in your face, you'll you'll quite quickly learn that you've done something wrong in that situation. You'll you'll be in that situation again in front of a guy

that looks big and strong and you will think the next time you you address that person, how am I going to conduct myself when I say something here? Because I wouldn't like to get a tooth punched out on a on a cold night. So, I just think it's the I think it's I think it's shocking. I think as a human being to have a nervous system, it's hard not to be influenced by pain. And I think I think these are the ways that God teaches you.

>> I think pain's a big part of that. So I think it's one of the one of the most sort of impactful teachers. >> How do you handle fear? What's your relationship like with fear? >> Like everybody else. [gasps] Like everybody else, man, sometimes fear wins. But what I've realized about fear winning is you sort of run and hide, right? And a pivotal point in my life where I could give you an example of of my relationship to fear is, and I may have touched on

it with you, but I I I get stabbed off a guy. No, I'm 11 years old. I go onto an estate to see some friends asked me to come out and um and some guy sort of starting a problem with me and he ends up stabbing me and what happened I've touched on this before but I've not gone into this particular point and what sort of happened is I I went home I hid in the trousers from my my mom I got stabbed in my leg

and >> what was it? >> It was a screwdriver. Yeah. >> And he opened me up. Yeah. Know, so there was a lot of blood and the holes in these pants. Um, and after that I was afraid. The 6 weeks holidays came up where everybody goes out to play with the mates and I wanted to stay in right and there was just sort of a 3-year period where that situation was in the back of my mind. The fear of that situation, the pain that I felt,

the embarrassment in front of these people that invited me out. Some of them was girls. >> They picked my bike up, they smashed my bike. I was I was running from all of them feelings to a point where I went into a sort of a really dark place where I was experiencing suicidal thoughts. I made a couple of attempts, but was too young and too cowardly to really sort of get that over the life. And and at that point is when I realized I had to

face it and I went on to help that guy a fair fight on his estate. Um and I and I won that fight. And that was that for me was gave me an understanding of fear. And what it made me realize is you can hide for as long as you want, but at some point you've you've got to come out of the house. Some point you've got to face whatever it is that's that you find scary. and again have that fight. So that's my relationship to

fear. Sometimes it still wins, >> right? Sometimes I'm just not ready to have that particular fight. Um but then a lot of the times now I just go and get it done within reason as well. There's there's some there's some fights that the time's not now. >> Mhm. >> Some some fights can wait. Um, and then some fights are imminent and you just go and get it done. >> Most people have no idea where their testosterone levels sit. They'll talk about it. They'll insult their friends

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modernwisdom a checkout. That's functionhealth.com/modernwisdom a modern wisdom a checkout. I've heard you say progress is irreversible. >> The universe will pay you back for all of your hard work. Don't be afraid to work hard. >> Yeah. >> What's that mean to you? >> Yeah. I think so. You've just been doing a a tour, right? You'll you'll have made progress on some of them nights. The the it's the same as a seed being planted and you don't see the first bit of the seed growing >> because

we're outside of the soil looking at the ground. But it doesn't mean that it's not it's not progressing. The seed has started to sprout. It's started to grow. you know, eventually it'll be a big beautiful tree or whatever it's going to become. >> Uh, but you you must believe in the fact that progress was being made under the ground. >> And they're some of the toughest nights because you might be trying to become somebody in your life and like nothing's happening. It's like me now for

an example. I've made make it, maintain it. I call it part one because I eventually I'll make a part two, but by the time I make part two, I'm not interested in being a rapper no more. I'm not I'm not trying to sell albums. Even with this album, I've not promoted it much. >> Yeah. So, this is for the people listening. This is the day before the album drops. Uh there's been one pre-release song. One, two, >> a couple. >> Yeah. Uh doing this podcast today.

I know why you're here in London. You're busy doing a big project >> that isn't the album, which comes out tomorrow. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you're spending a few hours today and then we're doing dinner later on. Like I mean it's it's something that's obviously very meaningful to you and yet you're getting on with life outside of it too. It's already transcending. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and I'm interested in in diversifying. So the project there that you're talking about, they actually announced that the other

day, >> did they? >> So we can touch on it, which is >> Tell me. >> Yeah. It's the the gentleman series 3 with Guy Richie. Um, which is just an exciting prospect for me. Uh, being that Guy Richie films prior to me being in the media were films that really sort of grabbed my attention. His style of directing really grabbed my attention. I look at rap music as a young man's sport. Not to say that I'm not a young man now, but rap music is

sort of about the come and the the transcendence of dysfunction. >> Mhm. >> Anything after that, you can hang about too long. And I'm sort of looking at my skill set and I'm like, the I've got transferable skills that will apply to different worlds. Acting to me looks like a world I'm interested in in going over into. You will be the only actor from the gentleman movie in the gentleman series. Is that right? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah. What a privilege. >>

I mean, me. Like, Guy Richie is the most on fire man in the world at the moment. Like, just out of this world good. And the most recent Gentleman series is like I'm seeing guys dressing like Theo James. >> Yeah. >> Like people deciding, oh, this is going to be my expression of myself. It's an entire new subculture, I think. And it's crossed across into America as well. >> Yeah. I I' I'd sort of I'm not even said this to Guy, but I'd sort of say

that Guy Rich's time is is coming. I don't even think we've seen his best work, >> which is crackers to say given that when was like Locktock and those movies 25 years old, at least 20 years old, right? >> Yeah. I mean, look, I'm speaking out of school because again, they're not conversations that I've had with Guy, but in my early sort of career in music, there's a freedom in in your first releases. you're not really a part of the industry. You know, rigidity is not

set in that like loads of responsibility comes with it, fame might come with it. There's just things that happen that can impact um the type of work that you make. And in my experience, you end up catering to the audience at some points. That never works. >> You know, you end up thinking you're smarter than you actually are at some points. That never works. and you end up making some work that's not a true represent it's still solid work but it's not a true sort of

representation of the the artist that you actually are. Um so in the my short experience of of being in and amongst sort of Guy Rich's atmosphere I think he I think he gets better. Yeah. I don't I don't think he's peaked yet. There's a line that I had to write down from season two of The Gentleman. I think it's uh Theo's character when he's ill, when he's banged up, >> he's sick and he's he's been in that fight. And he says, "It's not until you leave

yourself behind that you can experience who you truly are." >> Mhm. >> I thought that was so lovely. And I wonder whether there's something similar with what you're talking about here that you start off I have something to say and it's true but it's unrefined. It's like rough, right? So I have a lot of [clears throat and cough] raw material to work with but I don't maybe have the experience that allows it to fully flourish. And then after a little bit of time you gain some

experience but you gain some pressure and some awareness and some notoriety and some expectations. and people want you to do these things and you've got well great first project like let's see if you can run it back again and again and again and then maybe you go off track a little bit with that and then oh okay well I I tried to chase success by giving people what I thought that they wanted >> that's not fulfilled me in the way that the original one did but

now I've got the experience to be able to make something more grand more beautiful truer to what it is but I've got all of these other things pulling me in different directions so I'm seduced there's sort of this eroticism of of of attention that comes from the people around me and and and and the world and the recognition. Okay. So, I need to rid myself of that. I need to keep the experience. I need to stay tapped into the thing that I had in the very

beginning. And then finally, if you can weave through this maze with seductresses and temptresses and sirens all over the place. Finally, you get to come out the other side and you go, "Wow, I have all the experience. I'm still emotionally, existentially connected to sort of what that root is." And now I've ridd myself. All the barnacles have been cold off the bottom of the ship so that I can actually finally get there. And I think that's that's hopefully what mastery looks like. You know, this sort

of ever increasing refinement of getting better and better and better at your art. The journey of greatness, man. >> That that was a far more articulate way [laughter] of of saying what I was just saying about Guy Richie. M you know you witness somebody's journey. There's lots of greatness on the way. Um but then eventually the the the work sort of complete >> and and and yeah, that's what you're left with a a master of their craft. And I just don't think there's many of them

in this day and age, man. Yeah. Know if you if you go back as early as like Da Vinci in the I've got a track called Da Vinci on the album >> and in the beginning I say in the Mona Lisa there's hundreds of layers of paint called this Da Vinci cuz there's hundreds of layers of paint and when I was I'll sort of try and study guys like Da Vinci. This is where I'm probably quite unusual, >> but you texted me at the start of

this year. I did an episode with a guy who broke down the life of Da Vinci, how to think like Da Vinci. >> And I was going back through our messages earlier on today and you'd sent me a text about that that particular episode. >> Bigging you up. It's a big episode. And >> so now we're getting to probably a version of me that I've not probably even spoke about much. Um, and there was there was a point when when when I'm 16, I'm sat in

jail in solitary confinement, and I have this dream that there's like an earthquake or something, and the world's coming to an end, and everybody's escaping, but I'm stuck in this room. I'm locked in this room and nobody's going to come and let me out and the whole world's falling down outside. And in that moment, as a 16-year-old guy, people that you came up in school with or whatever are sort of getting their GCSEs. >> And I remember being like not so much envious but aware of

the fact that like my household was falling to bits. There's no way I could have focused and got my education. Now, to go back to the victimhood narrative and the accountability that we spoke about before, my approach to that was I am going to go and self-educate. So, I can only really educate on things I'm interested in. >> So, I try and Yeah. I try and find I I mean, I can educate myself in areas. Again, I was talking about ADHD not long ago, talking about

I've got ADHD or ADD and whatever. And the more that I take accountability and strengthen up, the more I sort of realize like, do you know what? I can learn the things I'm not interested in. It just takes more of my energy. >> Mhm. >> I'm bored. I'm yawning. But I get through it. I will build the stamina to get through it. And that's where I've sort of got to now, right? However, Renaissance art and things like that are things that I'm just naturally interested in.

So, >> was it you were telling me, did you say that you got into learning about is it crests? [snorts] like how the the co a code of arms is constructed because you needed it for your house. Am I making this up? >> No, no, no. >> What's it called? What's the name for it? >> Yeah, code of arms. Basically, what would what would happen is in the early days and I guess that's attached to my interest in history. >> Right. Because when I'm when I'm

sort of looking around at the system that's in place, I'm like, let me strip this back and let me go to the beginning prior to the system and the types of people that put systems like this in place so I can have an understanding of what I'm looking at when I'm walking through this corporate world, what I need to take serious and what's not that interesting. >> And when you get back to the sort of early days, the primeval days, what would happen is lots of

wars would be kicking off in them days. And you would have uh if you was sort of associated with royalty family of the king or you know attached to royalty you would have a a coat of arms that would have sort of a repres a representation of of how that king came up and that I don't know it just fascinated me in the fact that some of these kings were just men [gasps] that was able to take power by force >> and then you got to

think Who is that individual? Well, that's that's the essence of what a king is. Because when you get to guys like Henry VII and he was like educated and flipping bit spoiled and chopping his wife's head off when they annoy him, really he doesn't represent what an actual king is. A king is a is a man that's took power by force. He's made it and he's maintained it. And that's the essence of of what I'm kind of talking about. I'm talking about the fact that any

man can be a king. And this doesn't mean that you're going to rule the land. You're going to be the king of the place that you live, but you be the king of your own kingdom. >> And that's just what I got interested in. Anyway, so that's the nature of me getting interested in the coat of arms. What would happen is be a big battle and um you might have had your ass whooped, all your guys are dead, and then you bump into 10 guys from

the other side on horses or whatever, and they would see you. Ordinarily, what they might do is just chop your head off, something to do, torture, whatever they felt like doing, cuz there's no laws going on at that point. Um, but if you've got this particular coat of arms on, it's in their best interest to take you back to their king and they would then their king would decide what to do. And ordinarily, you might negotiate with with with your king and sell you back >>

Mhm. >> to that king for a ransom anyway. So then they'd make a crest of that um coat of arms. I made a fragrance called the House of Vision and it was a part of designing that fragrance. So I guess I'm I'm lucky in that I've got job descriptions that allow me to educate myself in places, you know, I'm not just generic. If you put me back in a room with the kids that were Aclass students that got A's in their exams while I was sat

in jail, I bet now I'm more sophisticated than them in many areas because that was a generic version of history. I've gone off and got into the nuances, the little details of how things really work and how it's applicable to sort of times now. So, so yeah, and your episode on Da Vinci again, a version of me that people probably don't understand is I I go away and I I educate myself more and I read lots and I and I go and open my mind because

because of where I've come from, I think there's there's going to be people in the underbelly that are coming from real dysfunction that have no one to grab on to and and look at. I think the more my career grows, the more they'll sort of grab onto me. Um, and by the time I get there, I need to be educated enough to be able to stand on what it is I'm actually saying, >> let alone having the type of wife that I'm interested in having, let

alone bringing up the types of kids that I'm interested in bringing up, [snorts] >> you know? So, education in that respect is is key. I think there's always another level there's always another level to keep on educating yourself to to develop yourself toward and in some ways that can make people feel a bit despondent because I'm never done. I'm never finished. But also, if you enjoy what it is that you're learning, if you enjoy the process of growth and improving yourself and impacting the people around

you, the people that you haven't even found yet, the wife that you don't have, the kids that don't exist, the dog that you haven't raised, >> yeah, >> the house that you haven't bought, it's an opportunity. >> Yeah. And and I think that is where maintain it comes into the equation. >> [sighs and gasps] >> I think that um diet, the anatomy, the way that the body works, how to keep the body strong and functional, the mind, how to keep the mind elasticated and open to

learning more. I think I think these are all things that are necessity. I don't think there's any two ways about it. You you're either going to be the type of an old person that's got a walking stick and you're frail or you're going to be one of these that we're seeing a lot of in in the modern day and age where you're still looking young and feeling fresh and you know living your best life. That's what I'm interested in. That's the kind of wealth I'm interested

in. I'm content. I've got everything I ever wanted. If I'm smart, there'll be people far richer than me. But if I'm smart, I'll never work again. At that, I'm uninterested, man. What I'm interested in now is enjoying my life, doing the things I enjoy doing, building the family I'd like to build, looking after my children, giving them every opportunity to live a solid life, you know. And that's what that's what maintenance is, you know. It's the you take the kingdom by force and then you maintain

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a checkout. Do you think if you stayed in primarily focusing on rap that that would limit you, limit your growth, limit your life? >> I've probably been in the rap game longer than you should. And I've been able to do that because my my story story storytelling ability is um that's that's a gift that I've been given. That's that's one of the gifts that I've got. Um and and I remember I remember being young and and being in lots of trouble. I was at an old

friend's house. We was on the computer, the PlayStation, and his mom rushes up the stairs all flustered and worried. And she's like, "Just had the police on the phone." And she's like, "You've got um an Osmond warning." Now, I could be wrong about that word, but I think it's an Osmond warning. And that's when there's intelligence that somebody wants to take your life. And >> about you? >> About him? >> Right. I had nowhere to live, so I was staying on his sofa. And it it

didn't fluster us. It was it was the lifestyle we was living at the time. We thought we was going to be career criminals. And this was the our sort of practice stages. This was the same as being a young boxer in the gym, sparring. >> How old were you? >> Um for 14, 15. Um, and at that time of my life, so much chaos was happening on a day-to-day basis that I was sort of that's one of the few times that I've questioned God >> and

been like, why why am I having to go through all of this? And it's not until my career sort of formulates and takes shape that I understand that like, oh, I'm able to be a storyteller in the rap business that's actually got lots to talk about, you know, and it's I'm just coming to a stage now where I think the rap game, it goes in stages of you're from a dysfunctional background. You talk about that. Here's who I am. Here's where I'm from. Here's what it's

been like. We relate to that guy. >> He gets another album out of that if he's clever. [sighs and gasps] >> Then he's got some money. And then he starts talking about the money, the cars, the girls, and what he spent his money on. >> What I'm talking about in this album is the point that's underdocumented in rap, which is what happens after you've spoke about where you've come from. an audience has connected with you. You've earned some dough. You spent some money on some fancy

things. What next? That's maintain it. It's m maintenance. >> We've got that in America. >> We've got Jay-Z. We've got 50 Cent. We've got But if you look at guys like P did it. >> If you look at the way, you know, 50 Cent conducts himself, there's still some heavy dysfunction going on >> in the mix of that. And don't get me wrong, America is a big brash place. So the British rap game is a different game. However, >> Daniel West probably another good example. >>

Good example. Lots of dysfunction there, right? And but we're British, so we conduct ourselves different. So I'm one of the first British rappers, one of the pioneers in that. Here's what it looks like after that phase. >> And I I I understand the responsibility of that position. And that's why I take diversifying serious and a lot of other rappers will be shocked and will find themselves having to follow the blueprint. And I just don't say that in an egotistical way. I don't I mean it with

all due respect. I'm just on my journey. I'm not even interested in being better than anybody else at this point. I'm really just competing with myself. However, rapping is a young man's game, you know, and there comes a point where you must diversify. A lot of boxers don't diversify. A lot of footballers don't diversify, and it all goes wrong. We see them. They've put weight on. They spent a lot of the money on the the addictions they've picked up. And they're sad. So, therefore, you you

have to take that transition serious. You know, you you must diversify. and and in diversifying, you get yourself a more adult job description. That's why I'm interested in being an actor >> and um take into consideration the fact that as a man, it's your job to look after a wife and children, you know. And I I think I just see people that that don't take that aspect of um participating in a young man sport serious. the next phase of their life serious. >> It's interesting. I've

been thinking a good bit about >> something like mastery with an open heart. >> Mhm. >> What drives most people, especially in the beginning to work hard, to be diligent, to be disciplined is maybe a chip on their shoulder. It's wanting to prove people wrong. It's wanting recognition and validation, admiration, respect from people that they respect. It's wanting to get money and freedom and independence to be able to navigate their own sovereignty to not need permission from anybody. There's a lot of fuel >> in the

beginning. And I'm interested how many people are able to continue chasing mastery without relying on the toxic fuel that was there in the beginning. >> What happens when you've spent that fuel tank? because you can keep using it, but over a long enough time period it is toxic. >> Well, cuz then you got to go and produce more of the fuel. >> 100%. I have a a a I know of a a couple of guys recently who have basically manufactured enemies. Yeah, >> they've they've this

situation a bunch of situations actually did not need the level of friction canankerousness uh divergence, disagreement. It didn't need that. These enemies have been confected, concocted, confabulated out of nowhere purely so that this person has something to push up against. >> Yeah. sophisticated and articulate. I'm I've been guilty of that. >> I'm going to make an enemy. You're going to make an enemy to give me more of this fuel that I worry I'm dwindling out of. >> I reckon 50 Cent's guilty of that. >> Who?

What? What? Which which enemies has he done? I don't know the law. >> But no, by the way, I have I have no interest in in sort of speaking on another man's journey. It's just an observation. Um if I talk about myself, which is all I understand. Um, I just see similarities, right, that I can relate to. And what happens in the streets is there's some scary individual that would like to take you off the face of the planet if they could, >> and it's down

to, I don't know, jealousy, hatred, anger, whatever the reason is, but it it fires up something in you. >> That also happens in boxing. When you walk into the boxing gym and the coach says, "I've got you a fight." Really? Yeah. You're going to be fighting this guy. He's had this many fights and it's real. You're going to be having a fight that'll have this have a similar effect on you. And what it is is there's a um there's this sort of final destination in your

mind if you're not careful whereby [gasps and sighs] the worst can occur like you can really you can lose and in losing you can lose your identity. You can lose your selfrespect. There's so much on the line and it just brings out a new version of yourself. You'll do the extra run. >> You'll go to bed early reading a book. Yeah. No, you'll and and and I I experienced that in the streets. You have a problem with a scary individual. You you'll take making some money

more serious cuz you're like, I can't be out here forever, man. >> Um, so that being said, I'm guilty of trying to initiate the production of that toxic fuel. >> Yeah. Just because a professional career kicks in in entertainment and some of the lines are blurred, >> it's like I'm a rapper. >> What does that mean exactly? You know, so you got to create your own framework. >> You've manufactured enemies and rivalries because >> Well, they're sort of there, right? But they're just not as interesting

as they were once were. >> Yeah. >> Actually, your your pride's not on the line. you don't care what they say about you. >> But you can open that part of your mind and be like, "What did he say?" >> And that brings out a version of you that you're like, "If I bump into him and he thinks cuz I'm famous, he's going to do something to me and I'm not going to take self-defense serious that, you know, and that'll just bring out a version of

yourself that that turns up with a solid physique, >> turns up focused, has been reading before bed." And so there was a lot of that in there. There's a world out there where there's a lot of jealous people, a lot of people that are probably upset with things I've said, things I've done. Um, and there's been versions of events where I've actually looked at that. Let me see what these people are thinking and provoked myself, >> got myself a little bit nervous, thinking, "Oh, is he

out there >> and he would like a problem with me if he could?" All right, for sure. And then you become the version of yourself that is prepared for that challenge. >> What do you think about that? Because I I can see both sides of how useful and and adaptive and functional that could be. In one way, it is free fuel for you to push yourself harder to become better. And in another way, you are manufacturing like just creating out of thin air antagonism against the

world. Well, it's it's energy essentially. You're farming energy, but it's a crutch. Also, you're relying on something external to create energy. >> In the same way as you were saying, you want to be able to be the best that you can without people around you bigging you up and telling you that you can be better. >> You've got to go through this season of isolation, man. It's just not spoke about enough. >> Well, we're going into winter. That's the winter arc, right? >> Yeah, man. and

and have the confidence in yourself that you'll come out the other side, man. And in and in that you will let go of all crutches. I don't need some negative individual that would love to have a problem with me cuz it prospers his life but >> hinders mine. It doesn't matter. I don't need the fuel from that to get up and get to the gym >> and lift heavy, you know, or go sparring and let it fly, you know. So you you you'd learn to look

within and um as opposed to take toxic fuel, find the real fuel, the you know your essence and really comes from a place of love. That's what the real fuel is. >> Yeah, man. It's love, man. Why am I interested in my purpose? Well, it's because I remember being 12 year old looking at a documentary when we were kings about Muhammad Ali and George Foreman. They go and fight in in Z was it the Rumble in the jungle and um and I was just I was

surrounded by complete dysfunction and I was desperately looking for sources of inspiration and that's what I served as in a ma in a major major way >> you know there was suicide on my mind at them times there was you know I was in a dark place and um from a place of love tap tapping into that abundant energy source of love. >> I know that kid's out there and I know that that kid is taking strength from what I do next. So therefore, that's all

the strength I need to maintain it in that if I fall off, I let that kid down, >> you know, and I could have saved a life there. And that's I I I think when you you've got a very dysfunctional family, there's this internal battle that sort of goes on where you're like you got to let go of people and you're like am I not loving? Have I have I gone cold? There's a song called Prisoner and I talk about it. I'm saying I'm afraid that

I've gone cold and that's the question I'm sort of asking myself sort of writing like my diary in in this particular song. And in asking yourself that question, you have to look at your relationship to human beings in general. Because I'm really willing to cut people off, man. Like if regardless to the title of an individual to preserve my inner peace, I'll really let go, man. I don't care who you are, what it is. If you're not going to take accountability and you're going to lie

and be disrespectful or whatever it is, I'm I'm going to leave you over there. I'm just going to keep walking my own journey. M >> when you then look at your relationship to human beings and you meet an individual that is accountable or from a dysfunctional background but is trained and that's where you see what what's going on in your heart and it it turns out that there's lots of love in my heart. >> Yeah. And and actually I'm more open than I than I thought

I was. I'm just triggered by people that have the same traits, similar traits to the ones that I was sort of brought up, exposed to, and sort of firsthand witnessed the destruction that comes with how them people are. >> Do you know why [clears throat] I think that is? Uh, so there's a a a type of illness called uh SURS, chronic inflammatory response syndrome. And if you live in a house that's got um toxins, biotoxins in like mold and microbes, >> your immune system begins to

learn that that's a threat. It's slowly over time breaking your immune system down. And chronic inflammatory response syndrome means that if you ever get reexposed to that kind of environment, almost immediately your immune system switches on. It's like a warning alarm. This is familiar and dangerous >> and it's an immediate response. So, if you have SRS and you walk into a building, even if you've been out of a toxic environment for uh 12 months, let's say, >> you walk into a house that's got mold spores

in it similar to the ones that you were exposed to in the past. Your neck will go red. You'll [clears throat] be inflamed. You'll get a ringing in your ears. You'll get brain fog. You might feel sick. You might lots of things happen. Immediately, this thing switches on. And I think what's happening there is your body has learned that a very familiar but dangerous kind of pathogen. >> Mhm. >> Is around. >> And I think that this is somewhat similar to what you're seeing here, which

is I know that archetype. I know that kind of person. I understand the mentality, the background, the worldview. And there is a psychological immune system that kicks in which goes if I spend too much time around this person I might go back there. I don't think that it's fully conscious but I certainly see it myself. There are patterns from my childhood people that I spent time around um lessons that I learned or observed people that I saw in the modes of behavior. I'm like that was

imprinted so deep into the source code of who I am that I do not want that in my life. I don't want his relationship with gambling. I don't want the way that he cheats on his wife. I don't want his lack of care for his kids. I don't want the fact that he uses alcohol in order to be able to deal with his problems. And anytime that I see something that sometimes isn't even that, I like incorrectly pattern match in the same way as chronic inflammatory

response syndrome. You can go into a building and it's 1/ 1,000th or 1/100th of the dosage that you were exposed to previously, but immediately the immune system switches on because it's looking for this thing that was maybe a killer that maybe could have taken your life down a path or your immune system or your health down a path that you really didn't want it to go in. And this is kind of the same which is I see in this person somewhere or in this relationship or

in this dynamic or whatever I see a world that I really really don't want to be a part of and it feels familiar to me in a way where my psychological immune system is kicked on to go get the away from this as quickly as possible. >> Interesting point right because there's two versions of events there. Okay. And what you're talking about with the the inflammatory response is the sort of the body's like airbags. You know, in a in a car, the car crashes and the

airbags come out and you're talking about them airbags sort of prematurely >> Yes. Yes. >> sort of alerting and coming out. >> Mhm. >> So in within sort of the healing process, there is a phase where prematurely the airbags come out and it's like oh no. As you become the more you become a man, the more you you're making decisions essentially. You're looking at a situation. You're weighing it up for what it is >> and the impact it can potentially have and you're initiating healthy boundaries.

>> Mhm. You're not responding uh impulsively. >> Yeah. >> Uh there's a degree of intuition, but it's uh cultivated intuition refined. >> There you go. Yeah. And and at that point, you're just making decisions as opposed to just being triggered and there's a triggered response >> or as opposed to having permeable boundaries so malleable and floppy that you never actually end up standing up for yourself or when you were young being so inexperienced that you weren't able to see the pattern that you should have been

aware of. You didn't know what a microbe was. You didn't understand what a moldy house smelt like. Mhm. >> So you go from ignorance to awareness to reactivity and then finally to discernment maybe something like that. >> The word would probably be responsibility. You're responsible in the decisions that you make. >> You can see what it is that you're walking into and you decide to walk away. You decide to let it go. So like some of them people that them individuals you spoke about a gambler

or you know I've I've been around guys that cheat on their partners and you have to make a decision in that in that moment because there's 80% of that person's character that is up your street. This is my kind of guy. >> But at the point that he cheats on his partner. It's like and as a human being, you can't be judgmental, right? Cuz we all come from dysfunction. However, when you're becoming the person that you see yourself being, >> you got to make decisions, man.

And some things you got to take a step away from, you know? So, it's it's it's um it's honesty really. I think it's authenticity. I think again, it comes down to love. How am I supposed to look that guy's partner in the eye if I have an understanding that he goes and cheats on his misses, >> you know? How how am I supposed to trust what he's saying to me if he goes home and lies to his to his best friend? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

unfortunately, it's one of the things I don't think people fully realize about gossip that uh everyone likes gossip in one form or another, right? even if you know that you shouldn't until you realize that you've been seduced by it. You're like, "Oh, is that some information about something behind the scenes that could be quite interesting or cool or a little bit go like venting, gossipy, [sighs and gasps] but one of the things that people who gossip a lot don't realize is that even if the person

they're gossiping about doesn't find out >> Mhm. >> the person that they're gossiping to is taught a really interesting lesson. >> Oh, they found out >> that you are the sort of person that talks behind people's backs. >> Yeah. And then you get the types of people that won't do that for that reason or you get the types of people that don't do it because it's just against their moral code. Correct. That's that's that's who you want to be. They're the people that are they're the

people I gravitate towards their morals and their principles. I like being around them people because they're accountable. They're responsible. Now, by the way, I have been an unaccountable and unresponsible individual. And that is the nature of growing up. That's a part of the journey. So, I don't sit here as somebody that's like um perfect and always been perfect, you know. I I sit here as somebody on the journey, you know, but but taking it serious. >> There's a letter from Sigman Freud to KL Young letter

that he wrote him. One of the lines in it says, "One day in retrospect, the years of struggle will strike you as most beautiful." The years of struggle will strike you as most beautiful. And I think that it's just such a gorgeous reflection on what most people realize, but only in retrospect. Unfortunately, when you're going through it, eating unsure whether or not you're going to be able to get out, tarnished, doubtful, in pity. How can you say that this is beautiful? And yet, when you look

back, the years of struggle are the ones where you go, [sighs] that was it. That was where I was forging myself. I think the key is to be present, is to try and see the beauty in the in the darkness, you know, in the midst of the tunnel, in the midst of the chaos, understanding that the there's beauty within it. And it's a tough place to be. >> It's a tough place to be. But there does come a point where you've just been through so much

that you sort of know now that this is my path so I might as well accept it and this this will pass. You know, I will get through this >> one way or another. >> So, you start to admire the fact that that is the beauty of life, man. You know, I've had some I've had some really dark situations. Um, and like I said before, the the the time when I questioned God, I've had darker situations where I've not questioned God and I've just understood that

like this is it. This is how it's supposed to be right now. And I'm sure I'll come back stronger and I've been right and I have come back stronger. So yeah. When are we most uncertain? [sighs and gasps] When are you not uncertain? Man, I think in times when I felt the most certain, it's been fabricated. It's because I'm leaning on these crutches, these friends that you're talking about that like believe in you more than you do and all that, like that'll create a false sense

of security. I think the whole way through these just moments where you just like, you know, and I think the most uncertain I've been is when I'm losing trust in my own mind, my own ability to control my impulses and I'm making decisions that they're out of my right mind. And it's like I wouldn't do a thing like that, you know, or I wouldn't become addicted to doing a thing like that, you know. There was a time where earlier in the in in in my life

when I was exposed to violence on a quite a regular basis and some pretty bad things had happened to me. I was taking um um I'm going to say joy in sort of inflicting pain and it's just with some being somebody that's interested in fitness. It's just one one of the vices that sort of fit with me. So, I'd have a friend that I'd have trouble with, an individual, and I'd take it upon myself to rectify this situation. >> Some retribution. >> Yeah. Because I think

and again, like honestly, brother, like you sort of grow up. My my stepdad beat me up when I was 11 and it had a profound effect on me. >> One particular time did >> you know. Yeah. Bad. And it has a it has a profound effect that you it's not until you grow you become adult and you look back at your life and you're like now I understand why I was interested in just being a nuisance you know and it's because that's what you're taught and

you you know that it hurt >> but it also felt embarrassing. >> How much of it was the pain and how much was the humiliation? >> It's part and parcel right and you want to inflict that onto other people. So that feeling that you feel after being physically violated and left on the floor or whatever when you see somebody else in that situation you think deal with it. I did. >> Yeah. >> Don't cry. What are you crying for? I didn't you know so there was

there was a there was a phase in life where you know and all that's part of part part and parcel of thinking you're going to be a criminal for for a living. makes you a handy guy to have around >> cuz it's a a thing that you um you're at the time enjoying and then you sort of tap back into the true version of who you are and you realize that that's something that life if I wasn't careful was going to do to me. Life was

going to make me that individual. >> Do you understand? And I had to snap out of that and I had to realize actually I'm not like that. I'm a loving, kind, caring, respectful person. >> That's something I've I've felt like I had to become in order to keep myself protected in the environment that I was in. This comes back to make it some of these environments that unfortunately having no money will leave you in. You will be exposed to dark things and you will have to

become a version of yourself to deal with them dark things that when you mature, you just won't be able to stand by, >> you know, and if you're not careful, you take it over the top. And I met a lot of them individuals in in jail and they've done dark things and you can see that they're maturing out of that mindset now. >> But what's done is done. And you've got 14 years in this place, you know. So the the whole thing is a process of

healing, man. Healing, man. And only now are people starting to talk about it. Only now I'm man people starting to talk about sort of men addressing their emotions and what they've been through. And I I was talking about this from the get- go because my my original mixtapz were me sort of quitting boxing, coming to terms with quitting boxing and coming to terms with being depressed, you know, and and sad and down and and what I started to do was look at everything that I've been

through. Um just from a perspective of you know, do you know what that is sad that happened? It's sad. It's okay to feel sad about it. I don't have to snap and get angry and just accept and move forward, you know, and and actually as I look back through that process, I've I've built an incredible life for myself, man. Like I've I've done really good. [gasps] >> Yeah, man. You know, I'm I'm a young man. I'm I'm single. I'm in a position where I know I

can protect a family. You understand? I know I can pick a country in the world that I want to live. I can design a house exactly how I would like for it to be and I can protect a a wife and children and it just gives me a security and and I can look after myself you know and it just it just gives me that is all I think any of us really want give or take you know and and and and in that being said

that's what I'm trying to touch on in this album is them is the getting to that place. >> I don't think the numbers that important. I think once you financially secure, financially free, financially free is the word, freedom. Once you've got to that point, who cares if that's 100 million, 50 million or a million, half a million, whatever makes you free. >> Once you're there, you're there. You got to be content with your position. Once you know you can sort of look after a family, move

on and then and enjoy your life, maintain it. >> It's interesting. There's a a variety of different levels of freedom. >> Yeah. >> And one of them is you've heard of you money, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you money means maybe you don't need to work for anybody. You don't need to listen to a boss in the same way. you are uh liberated from having to worry about how much something's going to cost. That's one type of saying you. Another way of saying you

is you freedom. And you freedom, maybe you live off the grid or maybe you're able to move to another country where you can design your lifestyle in a different kind of a way. Maybe you've got your own cows and and sheep and goats and chickens and you're self-sufficient, right? There's a kind of uh even the local council, the power grid sort of you're not even you've got solar panels, you're completely prepped and off the grid in that way. But there's a third kind of saying you

that I think is much more attainable for a lot of people and that's a you family >> and that is no longer needing the validation of anyone. Like yeah, maybe you're not relying on a boss to tell you when to go to work. Maybe you're not relying on the power grid or the local foods supplier to give you whatever. But something that's much more attainable for a lot of people, I think, is to reach escape velocity from being judged, needing the validation of other people by

knowing that the people that you care about most think that you kind of can fly, that you can levitate, that you can lift the world up, and even if the rest of the universe is falling down around you, the person sleeping next to you in bed and the two people sleeping 10 ft above you in the same house think that you're a superhero. And I think that that is a kind of liberation that I see a lot of men when they become fathers achieving that throws

into quite harsh contrast the way that they were trying to gain liberation and freedom and sovereignty and recognition previously. It makes the the games that they were playing like probably quite shallow and desperate. Look at my need for performance. Like I'm jumping in the air like look at me, look at me, look over here. like look at how cool I am and how much I can do. And they didn't know that the right woman and the right kids, >> the bigger picture, right, >> is everything.

It's all of the fuel that they needed. And I think it probably in a a bit of a smirky way makes them look at that version of themselves as like kind of a kid. You were jumping up and down performing for all of these people. it was cool or whatever, but really what you needed was this unit. >> So, so I say why not have all three, right? And I I can only speak from the perspective of of a a young man, but without you money,

you can't get you freedom, not the real kind. [snorts] And if you're not careful, the you family will turn around and say, "Fuck you." if you ain't got your yourself in, you know, if you if you're not functional >> and if you not got yourself together. So therefore, I guess that is the sort of philosophy I'm talking about. But in order to say you, you need all bases covered. So you're going to need some money. How much that is, you can figure that out for your

particular set circumstances. Um the money will buy the you freedom. you know, and also by the protection of your family, the freedom of you, you being able to sort of connect, build relationship, um, and then your family won't turn around and say, "Fuck you." If you've developed the sort of functionality to to be a man. >> So, that's the that's the interesting thing that keeps coming up here. And I think it's because you've spent so much time thinking about the psychology, where you've come from, how

the human mind works, what human nature is, that when people talk, especially men, especially young men that are aspirational and have ambitions, when they talk about building a kingdom, >> Yeah. >> the kingdom that they're talking about a lot of the time is quite shallow. >> I I it's materialistic. It's it's physical. And these things, as you say, important and maybe even sort of the bottom of the pyramid of like, let's get yourself sorted first. Make sure that you're safe and secure and you've got the

surroundings. [snorts] But the kingdom that I think matters much more is the emotional one. >> Mhm. >> It's how much work have you done on yourself? How safe and secure are you as a vessel, not you as a supplier of resources? Yeah, that's important. But I think increasingly to me I am far more impressed by men who have built a kingdom of psychological security on top of one of financial security. I'd much much much much rather be friends with somebody who is 1/100th as rich and

wealthy and famous and statusful but has got a cathedral of psychological stability than one who is unbelievably acclaimed. I just sort of left it there and didn't go any deeper. >> Well, the um [clears throat] the external reflects the internal. You know, you know them by their fruits. You know, what's going on inside a person is will be reflected on the outside. So, you see that in a man's physique. You see that in the way that he sort of conducts himself, the things he's acquired, the

places he's trying to go. Um, which essentially means the the journey is always an internal journey. >> Mhm. >> And there's no getting around that. And that is that's that's work that involves solitude. So sometimes I see people that surround themselves with people cuz that's what the the isolation journey will do to you, right? It will make you think, have I become unsociable? Have I lost the ability to make and retain friendships? >> Yeah. And then you sort of you can see within some friendships that

like ah you've not got comfortable with walking your journey of isolation by yourself to become the strongest version of yourself and you're clinging on to these people for validation and a sense of belonging. And little do you know you'd be more far more valuable to that friendship group if you just went through your challenges man. Mhm. >> Embrace the the solitude, embrace the the isolation, come out on the other side. So again, I just I do I just think it's an an internal journey >> that

once taken seriously and and taken you then you come out as a man that can serve. I think I think people have forgotten what what a man's job is. I think sort of being around um Guy Richie exposed that to me and just witnessing certain conversations and having conversations with him. I don't know because I just think that he's um somebody that's um a philosopher really. That's why we like his films. That's why we like the dialogue of his movies. But who that person is behind

closed doors is um uh an honest man and a devoted husband and a devoted father and um and also someone that's very human that's come up through all of the levels, you know. I mean, you hear what a person like that has actually got to say as a much younger man. It just has a funny way of seeping into your bones, man. And and you just sort of understand that like again, you have to be just ruthlessly sort of accountable and and responsible. And then you

sort of remember that as a man, it's your it's your job to serve, man. I take I I take joy in um in helping out, if that makes sense. Do you know what I mean? If I can I've got a young fan called Oliver. He's um he's autistic. He's he's in jail or worse. And for me to be helpful towards an individual like that, I I take joy from that. You know, I've been in situations where something crazy is going on and I I can offer

a woman in that moment some sort of um protection. They're the moments that that I think is like masculine nature. That's that's like a part of me that um I take joy from. I see I see some people that take joy from like spending money or you know a lot of the money I've spent as as to been been to reinvest into my brand which was a rap brand. Big part of rap is the perception. So you got to give them proof of income. >> But

really behind all of that I'm quite a simple a simple guy man. And and in that as a man, I like to I feel like I like to do my job, if that makes sense. >> How do you square rapping about having a hurricane and a wraith that are in the same colors? >> Yeah. >> While also telling young people that money isn't the point. >> I think that you have a brand like mine, you better you better get financially free, man. And if you're going

to be financially free and you and you're young enough to be brash and and it for it to be acceptable in in any way, shape or form, then then demonstrate. You know, I I've done this independently. I I own the rights to all my music. That's one thing, right? But then you got to run the record label yourself. You got to employ the people. At one point the outgoings of of of the of the business it was something like 1.3 million on on staff along >>

Mhm. >> as a rapper on who who's doing it who's taking on all that extra stress. So you're building a thing independently. And if you're going to do that and you're going to take that path, you got to show proof of income like it's going well. It's possible. you're showing guys coming into the business like by the way you you can do this in a way where you're not just relying on an industry to make it happen >> you know so that being said that was

that's sort of part and parcel with the job desript description I taken on um however you take me out of that job description and I'm really a simple guy man I'm really a simple guy I come from humble beginnings, man. I come from a house with no no carpet and and floorboards and you know, I really don't need much. And that's the truth of who I am behind it all. But if you're going to be a rapper and you know, being poor will really do something

to you, man. I've been guilty of being a real showoff. And I was like that from I first started to acquire money just as a young man. You know, I'd buy a little superb bike and and turn up at the party showing off like it was something that I had to sort of humble myself in that regard. But again, it's the it's a journey. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> It's a journey, man. >> Is there a line of yours that you wish more people paid attention to

>> from the new album? one that you think people might overlook or from past work. Um, I I think a mindset I think there's a mindset that's overlooked, but in the times that I've I'm always taugh I'm always going on about Vincent Van Go, man. I bore myself sometimes, but you know what? That's the truth. I'm a bit of a boring guy. Why? Because that's where progression lies in repetition, man. So the things that I've studied, I've studied them over and over and over again until

I've taken the gems out of them situations. The reason people want to learn off successful people is cuz they don't want to go and do the repetition that's needed. Anyway, so one of the things I um sort of understood there the sort of hinge factor in in Van Go's legacy, which is what it is. Let's let's have it right. Some of his work is nearly priceless at this point. and he was trying to sell work. The work wouldn't sell. He dies. Then his brother goes on

to die. And his brother had a wife called Joe. And Joe put the uh letters between Vincent and his brother Theo out into the world. And when people understood the mindset and the philosophy behind Vincent Van Go's thinking and the fact that his literature was probably as beautiful as his artwork, that's what made the painting sell. >> Okay. So the more that I grow and the more that I'm courageous enough to articulate what I'm actually thinking as somebody that comes from a very complex background that

sort of identified with being a a villain at one point but has also >> been exposed to sophisticated people and and sort of took that on. when when people really get an an idea of my thinking, then they'll go back and listen to what I was saying in retrospect, >> right? [clears throat] And there's a film called Eternity's Gate. It's about Van Go. You may not have seen it. And there's a point in that in that film where Van Goes to St. Rey's Hospital. And in

them days, it was like a mental asylum. And what you would do is you would go and see a priest. the priest would come and see you to to figure out whether you was copus menace or not. And they would do that by your orientation in faith in God, your belief. And um Van Gooff, his his parents happened to be like pastors and religion was something he knew like the back of his hand. So then when the the priest the priest holds up some of his

work and he says, "You you think God made you a a painter to to paint this?" And what he was saying is your work's ugly, right? It's different money. And some of the big painters in France, they was making money from painting like realism and you know, it all looked real, but the the the camera was going to come and destroy that little trend. What Van Go had made was from his essence, right? And what Van Go says is he says, "Sometimes I feel like God's

made a mistake." and he says, "Sometimes I feel like God made me a painter for people that haven't yet been born." And and when I understood that, I understood that as an artist, the influence that I am having on people might not be for right now. It might be long after I'm gone. So, it's my job to just do my best work and be humble enough to accept the fact that people might not be able to see what I'm doing. They might not be able to

see all of the layers of the painting and the works of art that I'm putting out, but that doesn't mean that I become lazy because it's going to go over people's heads and people might ignore it because it's in the world forever as Vincent Van Go's paintings are in the world forever. And that's why they go up in value, you know, because the more you understand his philosophy and his thinking and his outlook on the world as somebody that was experiencing a really sort of rough

go of it, >> he was sort of closer to reality. Yeah. And you can't get you can't escape reality. So you will always go back and you will always refer back. You know, that's that's something that had a profound impact on me and that's what I've tried to do with this album. I've disconnected from feedback validation. I've just made it I've tried to make it more musical these layers and I've thrown it out there with part two. I've not really even verbalized this, but with with

part two, I'll I'll be getting on with my life at that point. I'll make it and I won't be promoting it as a rapper because I won't be a rapper at that point. I'll be a a husband and a father. So, I'll make it and I'll throw it out into the world for people that are following the trail that I've sort of left out there, [sighs and gasps] you know, and um and that'll be that. And at that point, acting will have either taken off and

I'm supposed to be a more famous person or I'm not. At this point, I've let go. You know what they say, to let go and let God. I've I've I've sort of got the things that I wanted in life and now I'm sort of revisiting faith and understanding my purpose. What am I here to do? How am I here to help? How can I serve? How can I help? And if that means that I'm supposed to be more famous, then so be it. If that means

I'm I get to be less famous, you know, and I get get my privacy back and and freedom, then so be it. both times round I'll be doing things that I'm I'm proud of that I can stand by that like you say my children can can be proud of you know so that's my outlook on that >> Bugsy Malone ladies and gentlemen dude you roll I appreciate the out of you where should people go to keep up to date with what's going on >> I mean

look the album comes out Friday so it'll be out by the time this is It's called Make It, Maintain It, Part One. It's my best work. Um, The Gentleman season 3 will come out at some point. I I'm giving that my all. I I shaved my hair off and everyone's like, "Why has he shaved his hair off?" [gasps] It's because I'm giving the acting game everything I've got. >> So, I'm looking a bit different. I'm >> gain 10 kilos, shaved your head. >> You know, I'm

serious about it. I'd like It's a job description I'd like. I I was lucky enough to be in a film with Jason Staithm and I and I seen his job description. I seen the way he conducted himself as a man. Um and it's it's a job description I'd like. So I'm I'm marching in that direction. Um that being said, I'm I'm I'm around, you know, and I appreciate you having me on again. >> I appreciate your moment. Until next time. Goodbye, my beauties. >> Dude, yes.

Hey, a quick note. One thing that we've been told by a lot of our subscribers is that on Apple Podcast, Spotify, and YouTube, they've been unsubscribed or unfollowed even though they pressed it. So, just do me a favor and check below if that has happened. It's happening to a lot of people. Means that you get to find out about episodes before anybody else. And it supports the show and makes me very happy indeed. Just give it a little check. Give it a little tap. All will

be well. I thank you.